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Add Provider VOI #338
Add Provider VOI #338
Conversation
@jeespers I'm 404 on the GBFS endpoint. Has VOI launched yet? |
@hunterowens : Hi @jeespers just went on vacation so let's see if I can help out; I guess you referring to however if you try
We could index I can provide you with sample API credentials if you want to try / verify the API. |
Hm, I'm not getting 401, but I'm not getting any content either.
Edit: I'm dumb, I forgot the |
@karcass as noted by @Zatte
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@thekaveman due to GDPR regulations we need to be able to control that the consumers of the data are compliant. To my understanding, a lot of the exciting providers are also requiring authentication. |
@drPytho could you please outline your legal reasoning why GBFS data (i.e. where your scooters are ready for renting) would even begin to touch GDPR regulation? Have you, unbeknownst to the public, deployed sentient scooters that would make them identified or identifiable individuals as subjects of the GDPR? And, if yes, how? And, more importantly, why? |
For fun and for profit 😉 No, but location data for how scooters move through the cities is to be considered personal data if it can be connected to an individual, which location definitely can do. Although sentient scooters would be amazing, and probably a fruitless side project from now on, is not the main objection we would have to not expose this data publically :) |
GBFS for dockless micromobility services is adequately anonymized (for public exposure) by excluding vehicle ID. This prevents individual trip information from being inferred by monitoring the endpoint. See such trip inference in action, for example, in these two papers from Grant McKenzie (@grantdmckenzie) at McGill U: Even though GBFS is only tracking hardware, the movement of said hardware can expose what could, and probably should, be considered PII. This isn't true for docked systems, because stationary docking locations have the effect of spatially binning intended trip destination, on top of the fact that stations, not bikes, are being tracked with That being said, a vehicle ID should still be included for use by city agencies, as it is too important from a regulatory standpoint. Any GBFS endpoint for use by an agency should be authenticated with an access token or otherwise. |
GBFS, housed by NABSA, is currently undergoing an update led by a consulting firm, supported by a broader consulting bench that includes Populus, Transit, and others. Encourage folks who are interested in following this conversation to register your interest here. In addition to evaluating and updating GBFS as a standard, the team will also develop best practices to protect traveler privacy. My $0.02 are that cities need access to vehicle IDs for regulatory and transportation planning purposes, but that is also reasonable to have security policies associated with potentially more sensitive data feeds that can be used to re-identify individuals. |
Is this based in any real-world legal counselling you have had? Even including the possibilities of rotating or even omitting vehicle IDs? I'm kind of at a loss here. Are you even considering wanting to provide GBFS to the general public and any input on how to make GBFS GDPR compliant would be welcome? |
We want to be able to provide it to the public and other parties to use the data, but we want/need control to validate that they are compliant and are not misusing the data. Possibilities to rate limit access and understand access patterns. Rotating and/or omitting vehicle IDs would go a long way, however, the cities will not like that and we don't have the time to implement an anonymized version to have it be completely open. I hope this PR can still be approved but for now, the API will be locked down, and anyone can request API keys to get access to the data. |
Again, could you please provide a concrete legal reasoning how this constitutes a real-life problem within the GDPR's jurisdiction that goes beyond “I wave my hands and invoke the magical GDPR incantation that makes unwanted eyes go away”? If what you're saying were true, how would your exposing a (non-rotating) vehicle ID and location through your own application or, say, endpoints of your API (that one might found documented somewhere™ on the net) which supply data in other formats than GBFS be substantially different from giving access to your GBFS API? |
I really don't have time in my day to argue this issue with concrete legal reasoning, I am both very enthusiastic about open source and open data and wish to be able to provide to this market. However, my first obligation is to protect our user's data. We have therefore made the final decision to be able to control the access to make sure that the users are in good hands. As well as being able to control the integrity of our systems and to rate-limit requests. To make this clear, we will not provide an unauthenticated endpoint for this data but anyone can always contact us to request access, and we encourage this! I hope this is good enough for @hunterowens and @thekaveman. |
And I call bullshit on that. You have been and are continuing to expose exactly the kind of data that would be expected from you through your existing APIs. No signup, no access tokens, nothing. If your publishing open access GBFS endpoints would be in breach of GDPR regulation, you would have been in breach of exactly this regulation for months now.
Well, then at least have the courtesy to call it as it is: You, as a corporation, have made the decision not to provide a second, best-effort GBFS endpoint without authentication. You have been shown mitigation measures and just don't find the time to implement them. There is absolutely no need to hide behind legal fiction in order to take this stance. |
Cool man... 👏 👏 👏
Unfortunately correct, this is something we are working on closing down and will be locked down as soon as possible.
Sort of correct, we want to be on the safer side, the grayscale on the regulations where something is personal data and to what level it should be protected. Therefore we want to be on the safe side. (Call bullshit on this too if you want.) We won't improve by opening up more data.
Yes, we have decided to not put work into randomizing the data for multiple reasons. First and foremost anyone who wants access can get it by getting an API key from us and get access to higher quality data. Even if there was no issue with the privacy we still want to be able to control request flow and rate-limiting which anyone who is building a system would be dumb not to have this. Hope this makes you satisfied @stkdiretto. |
Hi all- I'm merging this, but I've asked the folks at NABSA to clarify. Can you all move discussion over there? cc MobilityData/gbfs#184 |
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